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Description
In this episode of The Focused Advisor Podcast, host Ryan Ross sits down with Carmine Carino, CEO of Cornerstone Planning Group and bestselling author of Broken Dealer. Carmine shares his inspiring journey from the structured confines of a major insurance company to launching an independent, fee-only Registered Investment Advisor (RIA) firm that’s grown over 580% in just four years.
This candid conversation explores the challenges and triumphs of breaking away from “constrained environments,” the strategic moves that led to Cornerstone’s success, and the cultural values that fuel the firm’s growth. Whether you’re an advisor looking to build your own practice or improve your current business, this episode offers practical insights into creating a thriving, client-first RIA.
Chapters
[37:00] Closing Reflections: The importance of alignment, culture, and continuous improvement.
[00:00] Opening Remarks: Introduction to Carmine Carino and his book Broken Dealer.
[02:00] Starting the Journey: From the insurance world to founding Cornerstone Planning Group in 2020.
[05:00] The Cultural Key: How defining cultural values has driven Cornerstone’s 580% growth.
[08:45] Breaking Barriers: The inertia of staying in a constrained environment and overcoming it.
[12:00] Building Success: Metrics, impact-driven KPIs, and creating client-first systems.
[17:00] The Role of Personal Growth: Why coaching and self-development are essential for leaders and teams.
[22:00] Tools for Success: From Wealthbox to Remarkable, a look at the technologies driving efficiency.
[30:00] Fitness and Focus: How Carmine’s daily routines for physical and mental fitness fuel his professional performance.
Transcript
Ryan Ross (00:01)
Alright, hello independent financial advisors today. I am very excited to welcome Carmine Carino Who is an independent financial advisor based in Fairfield, New Jersey? He is a CEO of the cornerstone planning group which was founded in 2003 and now he is the best -selling author of Broken dealer his new book Carmine welcome on the show Wonderful wonderful. I see the book in the background. It’s it’s
Carmine Corino (00:25)
Hey, thank you for having me.
Ryan Ross (00:30)
It’s done pretty well, it seems.
Carmine Corino (00:31)
yeah, that’s the, excuse me, Forbes was our publisher. So I guess the Forbes team, that’s their process. Once we get published, sends you a nice little cover, which I…
Ryan Ross (00:40)
It’s very cool. didn’t know they did, well, I was going say I didn’t know they did publishing, but they’re obviously a big publisher, so that makes sense. I didn’t know they did book publishing, which is a unique thing. Well, I want to talk about your story. So how did you get into the advisory space?
Carmine Corino (00:46)
They do, yeah.
I think I followed the very traditional path in the beginning. In 2003, I started as an advisor with one of the larger insurance companies. My goal was always to be a financial planner. Once I got into the industry, you know, I…
Charging fees for financial planning and asset management, things like that is what I always wanted to do. This insurance company had an RIA. So within a few years I was there as an advisor. My practice grew, staff, other advisors over the years. And after 17 years of being in that, what I knew then, every year educating myself a little bit more on how constrained that environment was, because I wanted to act in my client’s best interest as a fiduciary, as a CFP.
Every year I learned a little bit more about how it’s not really a conducive environment for the types of services I wanted to provide.
I opened up Cortisol Planet Group as an independent field only RIA. We launched in May of 2020. I’m not the best at timing. It wasn’t the best time to start anything. Our exit was supposed to be March of 2020, but the SEC all started work from home. So my attorney said, we can’t get anybody on the phone. So we have to pause. So we paused and May was our launch date and we’re about four and a half years old. have offices in five states and growing and,
If you talk to anyone that was in a constrained environment like an insurance company or a warehouse, they’ll all say the same thing. I wish I did it sooner and it doesn’t change with my perception of the process. I wish I started many years earlier.
Ryan Ross (02:33)
Yeah, so let’s talk about what your business looks like now in terms of clients, terms of AUM, what kind of numbers are you guys looking at?
Carmine Corino (02:41)
Right now we’re almost about 700 million under management. We have 12 advisors. We have eight staff people here in Fairfield and then our offices in New York, Manhattan specifically, Connecticut right outside of Philly in Tallahassee, Florida with a Brooklyn office coming on board. we’re also talking to some several other advisor teams from California to Texas to Florida.
Nashville and Atlanta. So we have a lot of open conversations at the moment.
Ryan Ross (03:13)
How do you figure out which towns you want to go into? it kind of like, find an advisor and the chemistry works or you’re like, want to be in this market or how’s that process?
Carmine Corino (03:23)
You’ll find a successful advisor in a town of 800 in Iowa, right? It has nothing really to do with geographic, especially now COVID was really the location of where your client is, advisor is, those barriers have all been broken down. I have many clients I’ve never met in person before now.
Culture is what we strive for. I’ve said this before. We’ve said no to more advisors to join us and we’ve said yes to them. Very picky with who comes on board. It’s my responsibility as a leader to make sure that anyone I allow on the bus is a cultural match, everyone already on the bus, but it’s also my job as a leader. If that culture changes, that person has to go, unfortunately. I do it, but that’s my job to make sure that the bus is all filled with the same types of people.
Ryan Ross (04:10)
It’s interesting, are there specific elements of the culture that you, or the people that the offices that you’re looking at, Are there elements that you’re like, we gotta have this?
Carmine Corino (04:22)
So a lot of the people that I’m talking to are in these constrained environments. Like we have some advisors that are with us say that we’re with smaller independent RIAs that maybe just didn’t have the functionality capabilities that we do. Most come from the insurance company world. So they see the value in being independent, not for anything other than client impact.
So that’s the one common thread that I’ve seen with the people that I talk to. And when you talk to someone at a wire house or you talk to someone in insurance company, these companies, as you know, they do a great job at shielding their people from what’s out there. They do a very good job at that. The horse blinders.
They also do a good job at golden handcuffs. And there’s two types of people that are in these environments. One type of person that has these handcuffs on, they say, look at these handcuffs, they’re beautiful, they’re golden, they’re probably worth a lot of money, they look really good. And then there’s people like me that when those handcuffs were on, said, I don’t care what color these are, get them off me right now. Get me out. Now, within five minutes of talking to an advisor in that environment, I’ll know which one of the two that they are. And then it’s either a, you know,
Ryan Ross (05:21)
I can’t move my hands.
Carmine Corino (05:33)
Pasco at that point that we’ll start getting more data or we’ll just part his friends or whatever the case may be but it’s very easy to tell if someone’s ready and also the the advisors in those constrained environments me included there’s usually not a single event that Gets them to run out the door. It’s like Chinese water torture It’s just little things that open your eyes a little bit more and there was many of those things and looking back now like
that raised a flag and that raised a flag and it usually takes a few years to get to the point of, all right, get them off now.
Ryan Ross (06:07)
Is there a measure of success that you have for your firm in general that you guys look at every year you want to grow in one specific way?
Carmine Corino (06:16)
We track a lot of the basic metrics, right? But our goal setting has zero to do with revenue, profit. It had to do like this year we had a target and the number of ideal advisors we want to bolt on. Next year we have an ideal target. And we just do like that, you know, it’s very intentional. Like we grew very fast, very soon.
And last year we intentionally didn’t take any advisors on because we paused. We did an operational pause. We hired an operations consultant. We added multiple staff people, different technology changes, tighten up workflows, things like that. Got a lot of training for the staff because I said, I don’t want to add another person until I knew that we’re operationally sound. So it’s really, I don’t, let’s just say that we were solving for AUM.
Say we want a new, we want this amount of AUM per year. We want to bolt on this amount of new AUM for new advisor teams. Then that becomes the focus of the decision making process where I may be in a position to say, we’ll take this team out. They’re not a perfect cultural match, but shoot, if we take them out, we’ll hit our goal for the year. And now we’re stuck, right? It’s like, no, we want this amount of ideal advisors to check all the boxes for us and whether that’s.
whether that’s in lockstep with what we would expect with AUM or not, we don’t allow money or revenue to be the driver. think that’s for us, I think that clouds judgment.
Ryan Ross (07:41)
Hmm.
Yeah, I guess in that, if that was the case, you might be optimizing towards that versus some other kind of client relevant KPI.
Carmine Corino (07:52)
Correct, and it’s all about it. measure our main KPIs impact. So I can bring on a new client today and I have positive impact on that one household. But if we bring on an ideal advisor with 150 households, that was in a constrained environment before. Not only is that advisor and their family and their business better off, but now their 150 households are better served.
So for us, that impact is really the driver. That’s my dopamine release is that kind of positive impact on the advisor and his clients. And that’s been the driver. It’s just, let’s just get as, know, based on our staffing and our capabilities, we can add this many advisors just adding more staff.
We engaged with FP Transitions, they do evaluation, they track up, they futurize or PNL for us every year. And we can actually add staff people at certain times, add advisors at certain times and see how that moves the needle for capacity purposes.
Ryan Ross (08:53)
You use a phrase a few times in the last few minutes, that’s a constrained environment. What do mean by that?
Carmine Corino (08:59)
Yeah, so anyone that’s been in this environment knows exactly. So it’s anyone that’s at a wire house or anyone at an insurance company where, so take my background for example, at the insurance company we had to sell a certain amount of their product in a 12 month period. So that affects your payout, that affects the benefits for you and your family, that affects even your affiliation, right? That could say, well, if you don’t do this in 12 months, we’re just gonna terminate your agreement. You’re an independent contractor so we can terminate with 30 day notice.
So that, for me, it was taking on non -ideal clients just to check the product box. And I call that elevator music. As good as we were doing as a team, you know, their year, like most companies, was July 1st to June 30th. So that elevator music was playing. we had a huge win. But had to move the needle for your requirement.
And in that kind of company culture, they thrive on people that crave. So we talk about Tony Robbins, Six Human Emotions. They crave people that crave significance. They have leaderboards, they have trips with special badges. So for people that say, I’ll do whatever you tell me to do. I’ll sell whatever, I just want one those badges when we go to the trip. They love that competitive nature.
because those people would put everything aside for that level of significance. I’m sure you’ve seen it. And it’s not pretty because what gets affected is the client at the end of the day. So, those can train environments means, it could be product requirements or limited capabilities. Like wirehouses don’t allow their advisors, some of them don’t allow them to do a financial plan for a client. Now, how valuable is a financial plan? A forecast, giving clients that, you know,
Ryan Ross (10:29)
So this,
Carmine Corino (10:45)
clarity, confidence, and direction with the decisions that they make. In my opinion, much more valuable than asset management, but there’s firms that don’t know why don’t they do that? Because it doesn’t fill in line with their agenda of moving product or whatever it is at that point. So that’s what we mean by constraint. You’re kind of just in this box. You’re in their box.
Ryan Ross (11:04)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I want to kind of shift to more of a mindset discussion really quickly. In the book, you talk about the inertia of staying put. And I’m curious, how do you approach that with an advisor? OK, if they’re comfortable in one place, how do you get them to kind of break out of that, honestly, the mental box of achieving higher things?
Carmine Corino (11:31)
You know, our minds want us to be comfortable, right? Every time you wake up early in the morning to go like do a workout. And that voice is in your head, you worked so late last night, you worked out whatever. It’s just our brains are just, you know, people crave, you know, we’re just all programmed, our brains just to make whatever road we’re on, just be as comfortable as possible. And not moving is super comfortable. Knowing that your benefits are taken care of is super comfortable.
knowing that you have a path, you have these golden handcuffs, you may have a pension, you’re betting, you know, all these other things. But on the other side of, you know, being uncomfortable is greatness. I’m such a believer in that is that it is a very uncomfortable proposition to change. It’s the second biggest decision an advisor will make, second to deciding to join the industry, I would think. And again, going back to that Chinese water torch, it’s usually roadblock after roadblock after these red flags, and it depends on where you find them.
in that journey of I gotta get out of here or you know what I can withstand a little bit more. I would tell you that it’s I try and educate people on your level of success in business and relationships in life and anything is directly correlated to amount of uncomfortableness you’re willing to endure. mean for physical fitness, for relationships with your spouse, with your kids, with your friends.
And if it’s, by the way, transitioning today as opposed to 10 years ago is a breeze. the amount that, and then we go into detail in the book, it’s really not that big of a deal anymore. The systems are so much better. The speed is so much faster than it used to be. And what we usually do with advisors is when they get to that point, we do an exercise called primaries and secondaries. So I’ll tell them, listen, we’re gonna send you an email and
On the top is gonna be primary concerns. What are the deal breakers? What was your new firm need to have? And it’s a binary yes or no answer, right? It’s really like, those are deal breakers. And what are your secondary concerns? The secondaries could be, what tech would you like to use? What services would you like to provide in the future? It’s not a deal breaker, but something that might be important to you. And we usually find like the primaries are very similar. If a advisor’s using the DBA.
at their firm. They want to continue to use their name because they’ve been using it for 15, 20, very understandable. I want to charge fees for planning. I want to be able to have discretion on my client’s accounts. These are the major things. one, hey, I want to maintain my trail of annuity commissions. We don’t have a broker -dealer affiliation. When we see that, it’s automatic no. Hey, we just can’t. And we had several advisors, joiners that sold their annuity book to go fee only because it’s just a much easier environment to maintain.
When they then put down all the fears and the things that and we start to walk through them. They’re like, Okay, next step. Hey get on the phone with our chief compliance officer Alan Gilmore Give him worst -case scenario. What are the things you would ever want to do? Let’s walk through it and we’ll record the call so you have it and Then they could have that call like wow. Okay much easier than the environment I’m in right now. In fact, I could do much more
And I want full disclosure like I would never want an advisor to bolt on at three months there like this isn’t what I thought because how much now there’s some firms that don’t provide transition support we provide full support We have four staff people here internally in Fairfield that will we only take one transition at a time So they get full focus that they’re gonna do a lot most of the heavy lifting for you other than talk to your clients So for us, it’s months of work. We don’t want them to be disappointed and be their first feeling is
when they’re here that they’re disappointed. mean, nobody wins.
Ryan Ross (15:25)
feeling this is very similar to, you’re familiar with Tim Ferriss, right? So he’s got this exercise called fear setting, which is like once a month or quarter, he kind of outlines like what is the worst possible scenario of what could happen? And once you just write it down, you’re like, actually, none of these seem really bad, right? Once you’ve explained it to yourself, you kind of just be like, you know what? I can live with all these things. And it makes it a lot easier.
Carmine Corino (15:29)
Horses.
Yeah, you know, when I do coaching and consulting for all the advisors, every quarter we have a check in and when an advisor is taking on a new capability, a new staff person, new expense, a new whatever, even personal, I’m sorry, what’s the worst that can happen? Well, can, let’s just use this just just happen, an advisor wants to hire a power planner internally. And what’s worst that can happen? Well, you know, I hire them for a few months. Okay, so you two months, three months of.
For three months of salary, what does that cost you? Write it down, okay? Will that put your family in the poor house? Will that derail your annual plan? Well, no. Okay, worst case, you’re gonna learn what worked and what didn’t work and who you want and more importantly, who don’t you want for that role. I mean, for me, it’s a huge, anything’s been a huge lesson for me, whether it was a cost or anything. Luckily, we haven’t had many failures, but when we do, it’s a learning experience. We pivot and we roll with it.
Ryan Ross (16:52)
So I want to jump to coaching, right? Because it sounds like, you guys have a good way to coach your advisors, but you’ve told me that you are a big proponent of using coaches to kind of level yourself up, right? Tell me about that.
Carmine Corino (17:02)
yeah.
So personal development, I hired my first business coach in 09. I was in the strategic coach program from 09 to 2011 with Dan Sullivan, so three year. And I’ve been in the business five years at that point. 18 month old daughter, son just born, zero money. Put it all on a credit card, flew to Chicago four times a year. And I really thank my wife because she understood that I needed that. Like I knew that.
there’s probably a hundred other things like we were just getting by. Weren’t broke, we’re just getting by. And that we could have deployed that money somewhere else. since then I’ve had right now I three different coaches. Each one of my staff people have a personal development budget that have they use it every year. We identify earlier in the year or the year before, hey, what conferences you’re going to? We have one that just got their CFP, another one taken in November.
I have found our success and our growth is in lockstep with the amount of personal development I put into myself. Now this is my coaches, my standing Cairo appointment every Thursday, my gym memberships, my books, down to supplement, everything, right? Anything to be a better version of myself. Cause that, in my opinion, personal development is improving and being the best version. And as a father, as a spouse, as a leader, that’s my responsibility.
to be the best version, to do what it takes to be the best version. And, you know, I’m well over six figures a year personal development. And the more I, you know, move that needle, the more we grow. I’m in multiple mastermind, I’m going to Utah in a few weeks to be with one mastermind group there and then go to Chicago to go to strategic coach. I’m in their TEDx program now. So for me, I hate being away from my family.
But it’s a necessity. Those things I need to do, be surrounded by people that are either where I’m at or, know, when I joined one of my masterminds, my business coach is still up today, Joe Lucas. I said, wanna be in a mastermind, I wanna be the brokest guy in the room. If I am the most successful, what am I learning?
So he goes, he called me maybe four months later and he goes, hey, you’re officially the brokeest guy in the room. I’m no longer the brokeest guy in the room. This was four or five years ago, but I’m in a group called Empire that are all operators of firms similar to mine from Anchorage, Alaska to Florida. They’ll go all around the country. And you you talk about such a, now my co -author Darren Blonsky with the book is in that group. That’s how we met and that’s how the idea to write a book came from and the meaning we had in Scottsdale.
Ryan Ross (19:46)
I see. So being in those rooms, what does that do to your psyche? How does it change it?
Carmine Corino (19:47)
Yeah.
I come out of these meetings that I have and I’m away in these types of masterminds seven times a year. So seven, like two day, two to three day events. So that’s almost three weeks, three to four weeks a year that I’m detached from the business. And mind you, no breakthroughs happen when you’re in the office. You have to detach. I come out with a list of notes, a list, I have a process that I follow where there’s action items, my team gets them the next day.
but talking about, for psychological, it’s, I don’t know how more people don’t do it. And I don’t care what you do for a living. You know, if you’re in a position where, you’re, you, you thinking about things will help whatever job you’re doing being detached is the only way to do it. And I take last year, I took four months off this year. It’s a little bit less.
But I don’t have email on my phone, so when I go on my sabbaticals in July and November, I am detached. There are three weeks since. And last year I read seven books on my July sabbatical, this year I read five. And I get more, more ideas, and I come back completely rejuvenated. And we always chart a new path. And notice that if you track our breakthroughs, it’s always after I’ve detached.
Ryan Ross (21:21)
What you said there’s a process that you have after these these master what’s the process?
Carmine Corino (21:26)
so I have, so I’ll take notes. I take a lot of notes, but I’ll keep one page on my remarkable for action items. So if I cease, if I hear now, I may hear something that’s not actionable and I’ll just write it down and I type my notes up after. So each meeting that I have, I had these notes for six, seven years now, every date who’s there and then my notes. then there’s always an action item list that when I get back, okay, what’s actionable right now that we can change.
By the way, it sits there and maybe it’s two days later that I’m going over with the team and I’m like, this makes no sense. What the hell was I thinking? I just cross it out. So I always have an action item list and there’s always three, four things. half of them have nothing to do what I’m talking about. just, an idea pops in my head about something completely different. I’m like, shoot, we should probably do that. And I write it down.
Ryan Ross (22:20)
What types of things have been recent that you’re like, that’s a great idea?
Carmine Corino (22:24)
so,
Probably one of the bigger ones, a lot of them are just basic logistical things. One of the bigger ones that happened last year, I went on my sabbatical, me and my family took a three week trip to Maui. We’d go there to spend every year. And…
private equity firm, a very big one, very prominent industry, offered to buy a percentage of cornerstone, help us grow and do the normal private equity thing. And I said no, just wasn’t in line with my vision. But the first two books I read on that sabbatical was Dan Sullivan and Dr. Ben Hardy’s book, 10X Easier Than 2X, it just come out. Which by the way,
I’m on reading it a third time. If anyone here that listens to this, you have to read the book. It’s fantastic. The second book I read was Built to Sell. Yes. So you talk about breakthrough. So I read 10 X’s Deezer and 2X, right? Knocked down a lot of my thinking around 2X and verse 10 X and talk about ideas. I, that’s when I gave up email. That’s when I said, all right, what are 2X activities? Get them off my plate today.
Ryan Ross (23:15)
Great book.
Love that part.
Carmine Corino (23:37)
That’s why I decided to go from about 180, 190 households down to 60 and then two years I’ll have really 10 that I’ll be dealing as an advisor. But built to sell, so I came back with all those logistical changes from the 10X book from built to sell, we changed how we’re charting the financials for the company because what the private equity process taught me is how the industry works. I don’t think that’ll ever be a path. I don’t wanna say ever, because I’m a little too young to say that, but if an acquisition is gonna be
potentially part of the future, we need to make the changes today. And we did, and we are. We’re literally in the process of rolling out a potential equity plan for the advisors here and the key employees. like for me, that’s important to people that help grow the enterprise I believe should have ownership and I want people with skin in the game.
Ryan Ross (24:26)
Biltisel is the one about the guy and he owns like a branding agency and they focus on logos. yeah. Yeah. Such a good book.
Carmine Corino (24:30)
I’m more, yeah, I’m more getting it out. You know, I want to give credit to them because the book is from Pat and I sent it to multiple clients. Let me just look it up because I do want to give them credit.
Ryan Ross (24:40)
think I have it on my shelf. It’s such a good book because it helps you really clarify who exactly you sell to and what like the product that you sell really, really, really closely. And when you focus like that, it’s so much easier to provide really, really good service. That’s it.
Carmine Corino (24:52)
Okay.
John Warlow was the author, is the author, fantastic book. It also, and I was already on this path, I’d been very good at taking time off and detaching and my team is great. I have a COO, a chief compliance officer, ops people that handle all the advisor. We have 12 advisors, so they’re handling all the advisor issues and the logistics. And then I have a servicing advisor and service team that handles my clients. So.
That allows me to detach and not have to, not look at an email for three weeks, not have to take a phone call for three weeks, right? Cause my team is really good. But what that book kind of illustrates is how an outside company would value a company. Why would they value something less or more? Like the more you’re involved in your, in your company, the less it’s worth because they’re not buying you. They want the revenue. They could care less if it’s you. That’s the private equity game, unfortunately.
So that was last year, last summer, and that was probably the biggest sizable changes that we’ve made since we started four years ago that I’ve taken away from detaching.
Ryan Ross (26:04)
Yeah. I have a question about just business development in general. How are you guys approaching finding new clients or, you know, maybe you’re trying to find new RIS. How are you guys approaching that and what are the steps you guys take?
Carmine Corino (26:08)
Mm
So the advisors here that, depending on who it is, some people do client events. I’m a huge advocate of introductions and referrals. It’s the only way I’ve ever grown. Very fortunate, I just always had to answer the phone. I’ve never done marketing before. I’ve only started doing recently around the book and cornerstone as an entity to attract potential new advisors.
So I mean, the standard stuff, have some couple of advisors that do a lot of video content on LinkedIn, webinars, ask anything calls, you know, the standard blocking and tackling that advisors do. When it comes to attracting advisors here to Cornerstone, I believe there’s two methods to growth. It’s either either you’re recruiting or attracting. The 12 advisors we have, we didn’t recruit one of them. I never made an outbound call.
These people were all referred to us by colleagues, other advisors, or some people just call me directly because of relationships I’ve had in the industry for how many years I’ve been in. I don’t know if I would ever go down the recruiting hole. I think attraction is better. That’s part of the book, the reason for the book. I’d rather someone see value in our core values and the way we operate and do business and what we allow our, the autonomy we give our advisors.
to be that attracted, not having a recruiter call every five days to see if they’re ready for an intro call. mean, I’ve gotten that call. You’ve probably gotten recruiter calls too. They’re not fun. Not at all.
Ryan Ross (27:50)
Yeah. So you’ve mentioned the core values. What are those? How are those outlined in your guys’s, in the business?
Carmine Corino (27:57)
You know, it is evolving, actually. We’re actually, you know, reading, the Core Value Equation was a great book, but I also read Start With Why, which is another thing. So we’re in the process of evolving the core values now to a point where we’ve almost tore down the ones that we have, because, you know, that’s the problem with all this information out there. It kind of…
Ryan Ross (28:10)
Yeah.
Carmine Corino (28:26)
It constantly, if I didn’t read as much as I did, nothing would ever change, which is, it’s a good thing and a bad thing. I always say, if you don’t constantly question what you’re doing, you’ll never get better. The problem with keeping, like I’ll read something and go, wow, we have to change our core values. And I read a book, core values mean absolutely nothing. It’s so funny, but our current core values are integrity, to act with character, excellence, to respect the work.
Ryan Ross (28:43)
Yeah.
Carmine Corino (28:54)
Impact to break the needle and ownership own everything. Those are the four But I’ve you know, I’ve questioned it like integrity Shouldn’t we all just have integrity? Does that have to do we need to put so that’s why I’ve like I looked at it because I read it somewhere and I’m like do we have to like The ownership now we hire an Echelon Front Jocko Willink‘s consultancy company. I read the book extreme ownership in 2017 was the best book on leadership. I’ve ever read we go through
Echelon front training every week. have a weekly, hour call with them. I’ve been to the live events. but ownership, is a, the four laws of combat that, know, that is something that talk about culture. was a strategic coach in April and Lee Brower is our moderator who is in our industry. Who’s just a brilliant guy.
And he challenged us, he said, back to your offices and have all your team email a time when they felt the most proud to work for your organization. I thought it was a great exercise. And extreme ownership, the ethos is like, look, if there’s an issue, there’s a concern, take ownership of it, own it, right? I don’t like victim’s mentality, I don’t think anybody does. So we have five staff people, four under 31, 31, so we have a very…
for that group of staff, we have an average age, very young. And some people my age think that’s a bad thing and I’ll tell you, you gotta flip that thinking because we have rock stars here and they’re there. We had an error, I don’t remember what the issue was internally, but there was a mistake made. And by the way, for the record, I make the most mistakes at anybody, but someone made a mistake and we do something called an after action report, an AAR.
which is military where there’s a mistake that everyone writes down a statement of what happened and you kind of get to the thread of, right, how can we make this never happen again? So I have, long story short, review the AAR and I have two 20 -something year olds arguing in my conference room of who’s gonna take ownership of the mistake. No, this was on me. No, no, no, I didn’t communicate properly. No, no, no, I didn’t put this note right.
And I said, in what world are we living in that this is now in any other environment? No, it’s his fault because of this. It’s a text fault that didn’t update. It didn’t do this and do that. And we have two people in their twenties fighting over who’s going to take the blame for an error. And that was my proudest moment, by the way. When I emailed myself and we shared it with the team, that was my proudest moment. And because that’s the culture.
Ryan Ross (31:17)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carmine Corino (31:38)
When we go to culture, I don’t ever believe what anyone says. I watch what they do. And that to me is proof that the training and the time and the money that we put into creating this environment of personal development and ownership, it works. Because that happened completely organically.
Ryan Ross (31:52)
Mm -hmm. That’s amazing. think it’s another thing you said was really interesting is the how your core values have evolved or they’re evolving because sometimes if you you might start a firm and you’re like these are this is what we believe right but as you get as I think Kane says like what I when I get new information I might change my opinions right and that things are gonna evolve as the market evolves as culture evolves right as as better new ideas come in.
I think that’s a really important thing to just be able to say like, these are our values now, right? They’re not going to regress.
Carmine Corino (32:28)
or even our, right, as our industry changes, right? And in the 10 X is easier than two X book, something that really moved the needle for me was, who do you, like take a moment, who do you wanna be a hero to? Right now, you asked me that five years ago, it’s the client with maybe the complicated tax issue, the client with all this stuff or charitable organization, like you fill in the blank, the traditional advisory.
Ryan Ross (32:32)
Mm
Carmine Corino (32:56)
Answers right advisor client answers today. It’s getting an advisor out of that constrained environment changing their lives changing our clients lives To me that’s it for me that get that that’s the dopamine release for me I had one of our advisors and a spouse here. I think it was the end of last year and It got emotional where they hugged me said you have no idea what you’ve done for for my family Our lives are completely different and better and for me all day
Like that’s that and I know that’s what I’d be a hero to, to the advisors that care about their clients more than themselves. They’re not in this industry for the money, they’re in it for the impact, but they’re just in the wrong environment.
Ryan Ross (33:36)
Yeah, that’s really crazy. think, well, yeah, like you said, like when, and, and when your culture is such that, that people are like saying, no, I’m going to take responsibility for this. I’m going to take, that’s how, that’s the end result, right? That’s how it plays out. And that’s how it probably should, because when the mindset of the people that you work with is, is right. And it’s, and it’s, it’s progress oriented. That’s, that’s the ideal end result that you could be looking for.
Carmine Corino (33:49)
Mm
Well, it’s, you know, true alignment. So you can have alignment. Like, let’s just say I have an employee, they work 40 hours a week and I pay them X salary and I give them this benefits and there’s alignment because I’m getting 40 hours a week from this person. They’re getting paid 40 hours a week. Okay. There’s some alignment there, but true alignment is when their vision, my vision overlap. And that’s when you truly have what, you know, Dan Selvett will say, a self -managing company. No one, I don’t need to be here to tell the team what is the mission? What’s the goal? What’s the objective?
And your team as a leader, it’s my responsibility to make sure that it’s communicated properly, clear, simple. Cause when I’m not here and one of my clients for 20 years calls and they need something, they know, Carm just wants the clients taken care of. This has been communicated to us. We’re going to do it every weekend. So we had one of my staff people, they didn’t even tell me, they went to a client’s office to pick up important paperwork for some trust document or something like that. They went and did it because they know that’s what I would do if I was here, but I was not here that day.
So that’s where true alignment is. Our mission is to make sure those clients are served, to make sure advisors have the best environment possible. So you don’t need me here, micromanaging.
Ryan Ross (35:16)
think that’s true, Because I don’t know how, maybe micromanaging might have worked in the past, now people, want to have, probably the skills to be able to form well. And from a leadership perspective, you don’t want to have to be just telling people exactly how to format their excels or whatever.
Carmine Corino (35:32)
No, no, but as a leader, it’s my responsibility to give them the permission to do what’s needed for the mission, but it starts with properly communicating the mission. If they don’t know the… And it drives me crazy, because I don’t think micromanaging ever worked, by the way. I just think companies could have been much more effective years ago, but I don’t think we’re training staff people. I’m not training staff people, I’m training leaders.
Ryan Ross (35:36)
Yeah.
Carmine Corino (36:00)
And that’s what extreme ownership teaches people is that, you know, they’re a leader in their own space. Look, you own this, this is yours. Right, and that’s why excellence, respecting the work is one of our core values. And I don’t think that’ll change because if we own it, if our name is on, it’s like a work of art. know, okay, a form going out to a client isn’t a Picasso, I get that.
But I’m in the camp of control the controllable. Anything a client sees, hears, touches, like smells, we can control that stuff. We can’t control whether a client’s happy or not, for the most part. Can’t control if a client decides to do business with us. We can’t control that. But we can control everything else. So we need to just say, hey, the name on the PDF needs to be perfect, because it’s easy. Let’s just control it.
And that’s that ownership mentality. I own the report that that client’s gonna look at, that I’m preparing for one of the advisor, it’s gonna be the best damn report that I can possibly do.
Ryan Ross (37:01)
In terms of that like like respecting the work it sounds like what that means is Making sure that you’re taking the time and the care to deliver something of quality is that am I getting that right?
Carmine Corino (37:15)
100%. I prepare, so I have, how can I put this? I don’t have an anxiety issue.
But I have a certain level of anxiety for every client meeting. And but that anxiety, after 21 years of doing client reviews and client meetings, but that low level of anxiety makes me review everything the day before to look for the things that make sure that it’s consistent, make sure the team prepped it properly, make sure it looks exactly the way I want it to look, or the way the client would like to see it looked. Because nobody knows a client better than I do. The team has interaction with the clients, but you know, on a personal level.
So for me that low level of anxiety is, we can’t strive for perfection, there’s no such thing, hell, if I can control it, if it’s in my ability to control, I’m gonna do it and I’m gonna try and be as perfect as we possibly can. Again, I think that’s our response and as a professional and it really, I’m like car shopping. So I go to this dealership and they pull the car and the car’s filthy.
Meanwhile, they have a whole, they have five guys washing cars in the back, right? I made the appointment a week before they knew I was coming. Now, I didn’t want to get in the car because I didn’t like the color, not because it was dirty, but in my head I’m like, you know, that’s a level of respect as a client. If I’m showing up and you guys took the time that, hey, he’s coming to look at this car, let’s clean it. I mean, it was filthy. Not like, we washed it yesterday, it rained overnight. No, no, it has been washed in weeks, probably.
So yeah, I don’t know if that would be the reason. I wouldn’t buy it, but I wasn’t, was like, this could have been presented much better. You were completely in control of the situation.
Ryan Ross (38:59)
Yeah. So in terms of like, so it sounds like you have a pretty good process for making sure that the work is delivered correctly. I’m curious about like how you guys stay competitive in the marketplace, right? And differentiation, I think is a part of that, but you said earlier that you have, you’re making sure that your team members are getting the right credentials. What other things are you guys doing to like stay competitive in the market?
Carmine Corino (39:28)
You know, we’re a planning first firm. We charge fees for financial planning. I charged my first fee in 05. So it’s kind of ingrained in me because I know the value of a financial plan. Competitive in our industry, I’ve heard this whole fee compression conversation for the last 10, 12 years. It’s never happened. And I don’t think it’s gonna happen. And because there’s gonna be clients that will like the RoboSolution or pay Vanguard 30 basis points.
to do one financial plan a year and have their assets managed. And by the way, those internal Vanguard advisors, they have six, 700 households I’ve heard. So when there’s a market crash, try and get somebody on the phone. But that’s the volume model. We’re not a volume shop. I onboarded two new clients last year and only two this year and I don’t plan on onboarding anyone else. For me and the advisors here, we’re not in scarcity mode. See the problem with those
constrained environments is they just want more and more clients. So they’re telling their people, just take everyone, especially on the insurance side. So let’s just say, you know, anyone, just take anyone, because eventually they’re gonna need a life insurance policy, or they’re gonna need long -term care, or take them on because their parents might need something. These are things we were taught, and as it evolved from an advisor to more of a business owner entrepreneur, those conversations didn’t make sense to me. Like, what do you wait?
I got staff up. Because back then I was saying each household cost me X to have. Because I was factoring in. I had a detached office. I had staff outside of their office for many years. And I said, well, it me X. I was running my own P &L at that time. I’m like, well, it cost me, here’s how many households I have. And I’m like, if I’m not making at least X on this household, then I’m losing money?
And this is where all the conflicts started happening. eh, red flag here, red flag there. The CFP disclosure was probably one of the bigger red flags. I don’t know if you remember this, but there was a time where the CFP board ruled if you worked at an insurance company and you had a sales requirement, that you could not use your CFP marks. Now for me, got it back in, I got my CFP in 05. It was hard for me to do. It was not fun. It was months and months of studying.
and they solved the problem with disclosure. So the client had to get a form, a disclosure. And the disclosure said, I have what most would consider conflict of interest. And it went on to spell it out, because I could only sell their products and this and that. I’m like, so I’m reading this, I’m like, great, we have a solution. Then I read it and I’m like, wait a minute.
Would I do business with this person? Brian, would you do business with that person? No. Would you go to a doctor that can only sell drugs from one pharmaceutical company?
Ryan Ross (42:30)
Yeah, I’ll take some.
Carmine Corino (42:32)
Even if the doctor knew you were better off with the other pharmaceutical company, their drug was better. The answer is no, right? And these are the things I started asking myself. And I said, whoa, this is a problem. And that just, I started asking more and more questions and more and more. And I was on their board at their RIA. So I knew the backend stuff that was happening as well. And this insurance company, and again, it it took this puzzle.
You know, I blame loyalty is the reason why I didn’t leave. One of my best friends was the managing partner and that’s how I got in the door. So loyalty, I’m blinded with loyalty. That’s clearly an issue that I got to work out. But when you’re sitting in a board meeting and they’re going over to financials and as a RIA, as an asset management firm, they would measure their success on how much money left their advisory accounts and funded insurance products.
And I said, well, that’s kind of screwed up. This might be the only investment firm on the planet that measures success by assets leaving the firm. And yeah, exactly. And you know, it just took another drop, you know, and I’m like, wow, okay, the CFP disclosure. And then we all had these bare, these minimums and they were pretty low. They were very reasonable because the company didn’t have horrible products. They made sense for a lot of people when insurance is needed.
But then they forexed their requirements in 2019. And that’s why I said, all right, I’m out. That was the last drop of water on my forehead. I said, that’s it. And that’s when I chartered my exit.
Ryan Ross (44:15)
So what year was it when you charted your exit?
Carmine Corino (44:20)
So I started in 19 and I left in May of 2020s when I resigned from that insurance company and Cornerstone opened.
Ryan Ross (44:27)
Yeah. And over those years, what type of like growth percentages have you guys had?
Carmine Corino (44:34)
We’ve had a total since, you know, they just did the valuation for us. So it has been, hold on, I have it right here.
It was, I want to make sure.
So we’ve had just shy 600 % growth in the last four and a half years. So 580 % growth. Yep.
Ryan Ross (44:59)
Okay, and 580 % growth. Are there any specific things you can point to and say like, this is why, these are the reasons why we had such great growth? that over the entire period?
Carmine Corino (45:13)
Just before, yes, over 2020, May of 2020 to now, so not even four and a half years, culture. Because once an advisor is basically shopping for a new home, we just had one interview with us and they said, we presented better than the, I’ll name you three of the large independent firms that you will know and I won’t name them. And he said for a smaller shop, because we are small, we’re not a large firm, I think we’re considered midsize, we presented much better than the.
Ryan Ross (45:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Carmine Corino (45:41)
the larger firms because being small or nimble and I don’t want a hundred advisors here that’s not that’s never been the goal because I love the personal relationships with the advisors and I could do that at 20 25 maybe 30 advisors can’t do it at a hundred and that’s why the private equity piece really turned me off not turn me off their their offer was fantastic but you know they wanted to dump as many advisors in to grow us to sell us and
Yeah, I don’t want 100, 150 advisors. I love those personal relationships. I love being able to meet them quarterly. We do annual plans every December. We have three mastermind meetings a year of just us. So it’s that culture. And I invite potential advisors to join us in one of our masterminds. And that’s usually a deal. Once they sit in and they get to see the other advisors and how we collaborate, mean, we’ve gotten more advisors just by them sitting in on those meetings than anything else.
Ryan Ross (46:39)
Yeah, so developing a culture where you guys are kind of pushing yourselves, making yourselves better, getting up, doing the work, respecting the work, making sure that you’re focusing on the impact rather than actually the AUM, because that’ll take care of itself, I suppose. If you could focus on the impact, it’ll take care of itself.
Carmine Corino (46:46)
Mm
You help as many people get what they want, you’ll get what you want. And since I’ve been an advisor, that’s all I’ve ever done. Again, I didn’t market and do anything. I just helped the hell out of people as much as I possibly could. And that’s why my phone just rang with introductions and referrals. My largest clients, I did not know before they were clients. And I love that fact. And they refer me to people, not because they like me, they know we’re gonna do a hell of a job for whoever they bring in.
Ryan Ross (47:28)
Who do you guys work with best in terms of just type of client?
Carmine Corino (47:32)
So for me, it’s business owners. have one of our teams is corporate, corporate execs. I mean, they are the masters of corporate executives. One of my advisors that runs our Tallahassee office, he does exit planning for business owners, exit planning and business valuation. He’ll do the valuations internally and help the clients actually increase valuations over time and then chart the exit. That’s his specialty. It really depends on which advisor. Then we have something for generalists that, hey, they’re just gonna work with.
They work with all different types of people.
Ryan Ross (48:05)
Okay, these are you guys, you guys sometimes they have a niche and sometimes they just they know what they’re doing really well so they can just they could do that so well. I see and is it is most of it inbound or stuff or do any of these advisors do outbound as well?
Carmine Corino (48:23)
What do you mean by outbound?
Ryan Ross (48:24)
Well, seeking that business exec.
Carmine Corino (48:27)
yeah, yeah, so they’re doing a lot of the team that does a lot of corporate executives, they’re doing a lot of learning videos. They have a website for a big corporate client specifically where they’ll do all videos on their benefits package. They do a lot of webinars, they do some happy hours near their headquarters and stuff like that. Very niche, the one that does a lot of business exit planning down in Florida, he’s…
He does some group talks with a couple CPAs locally at the Country Club, which has helped them tremendously with that.
Ryan Ross (49:01)
Hmm. Yeah. Do you know if there’s any like geographical, I don’t want to say like if, do any of the advisors focus on like local stuff only or is it like US only, any idea?
Carmine Corino (49:20)
I don’t think geography really plays a part anymore because of this.
Ryan Ross (49:24)
Hmm. Sure. Yeah, you said that some of your clients you haven’t met in person.
Carmine Corino (49:28)
I have not met in person, no, and they’re fantastic lines.
Ryan Ross (49:31)
Yeah, and they don’t be like, well, maybe we should get lunch together. No, you’re like, you know what? This is fine.
Carmine Corino (49:36)
There’s no, and I always say if you want to meet in person before, that’s great. And one client in particular I’m thinking of, they have a house at the Jersey Shore and they have a house up in the mountains in New York, Windom Mountain. So I said, you’re driving past my office. Just let me know what day and we’ll grab lunch. we don’t need to. Everything’s great. No problem. And I’m like, no, I know we don’t have to, but I’d love to meet you. No, listen.
Ryan Ross (49:51)
Cat skills.
Yes.
Carmine Corino (50:06)
We’ll figure it out. It’s been a year and a half. I’ll probably never meet them, but they are fantastic people. COVID was really one of the best things that’s happened in our industry because for years, and we were virtual before COVID. So the transition to most of our clients was very seamless. were using GoToMeeting. No one knows what GoToMeeting is anymore because everyone’s using Zoom. But we use GoToMeeting for many years, even clients that are in town to scale. Again, being an entrepreneur,
There are times we don’t need to see the client. We don’t have to drag the client in the office to sit in traffic. If we need to do a quick review or they just have a question, let’s just, send you a link. know, what the digital push now to meet virtually what COVID did was it now allows clients that probably just thought of working with an advisor meant having a drive across town or drive to the big city. But now they have access to quality advisors without leaving their house. And everything’s done through DocuSign.
And it’s just easier for clients to engage advisors, get the help that they need. I think it was the best thing that’s happened in our industry.
Ryan Ross (51:09)
Interesting. So we’ve talked about a few apps. I’d like to know about the tools you’re using. What are your favorite tools? You mentioned the Remarkable, which I’ve only seen ads for. I haven’t seen anybody use. So you’ve got to Remarkable. That’s like a note -taking app, right? Or like a…
Carmine Corino (51:13)
Hmm.
That’s all it is. Yep. It’s just a, it’s just basically a, an endless, yellow pad, which I was a yellow pad person for many or journal person for many years. I use a Kindle. So I was an audible person for many years. I, you know, I read a lot. I read probably two to three books a month minimum, on top of all the podcasts. And I went to, someone had sent me a book last year as a gift. That’s the first paper book I read in so long. And I was on the beach in my sabbatical. So let me read it.
And I figured out that I missed holding a book. But now on my Kindle, I have five books going up once right now, and it’s this big. I actually don’t have it with me today, but the Kindle white paper’s great.
I know. I mean, I use all the basic stuff that other people, you know, people use. Our CRM is fantastic.
Ryan Ross (52:10)
Yeah. Is the CRM proprietary or is it…
Carmine Corino (52:14)
no, no, we use Wealthbox. They’re a great partner of ours. They’ve really customized our space to our firm. You know, lot of the tech I’ve been using for so long, I’m just trying to think of…
Ryan Ross (52:15)
Okay, yeah.
LinkedIn too.
Carmine Corino (52:27)
I don’t, one of my team members runs my LinkedIn. don’t…
Ryan Ross (52:30)
But you’d never know.
Carmine Corino (52:35)
You know, I would tell you, I’m embarrassed. I don’t really even know how to get in there.
Ryan Ross (52:40)
Well I’m glad you got in and responded to my note on LinkedIn. That’s great.
Carmine Corino (52:44)
Well, because he came in and goes, hey, this guy wants to be on his podcast. I looked you up. said, sure. He’s a local guy. Let’s do it. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.
Ryan Ross (52:49)
yeah, New Jersey, probably the best state. Wonderful. Well, this has been a really, really interesting. I did want to ask you, we got a few more minutes. You have a, I think we spoke last time was you got a pretty good fitness regimen. You’re an early riser. Bring me through the day of like what you’re doing to keep your body and your mind active.
Carmine Corino (53:15)
This goes back to being responsible for being the best version, right? So I’ve always been into physical fitness for as long as I can remember. It really became more of a non -negotiable for me, I’d say the last five, six years. So a typical week for me. I don’t take any intentional days off. Life gives you days off. So my son had a hockey game out in Pennsylvania yesterday. We had a league super early, we didn’t get back till late, it was like three hours away. I didn’t get a workout in that day.
because that’s just the way the cards fell that day. I was gonna try to get it when I got home, but I just couldn’t get after it. Made up for it today. So Monday, Wednesday, Friday are usually long cardio days. I’m a runner and a swimmer. So today was a 2 ,700 yard swim. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday is resistance training. I’m very big into zone two cardio, keeping a steady state for hour and a half, two hours. I…
Ryan Ross (53:59)
Right.
Carmine Corino (54:12)
installed a sauna in my home so I was saunting at the gym but now my afternoon routine is saunting before dinner. Cold plunge, I don’t have a cold plunge, I go to a place. Yeah, just, the data on sauna with health benefits is very, they haven’t done one on cold plunge yet but I’ll get.
Ryan Ross (54:21)
I’d love to get one.
I’m really surprised that there’s not like data because everybody’s like, that’s what, yeah.
Carmine Corino (54:36)
I’m sure they will. I’m sure they will. And you know, the regimen for me is usually 20, 30 mile runs a week. I’ll swim. I’m dealing with achilles tendonitis right now. Want to therapy tomorrow and acupuncture Wednesday. So my running is on pause. So I’m back on the Peloton. So my run days this week will be on the Peloton. No, no, Peloton bike. I will swim in Peloton.
Ryan Ross (54:46)
Did you bike?
okay.
Yeah. Peloton treadmill. Blake, you do all the right sports for a triathlon. Have you done a triathlon?
Carmine Corino (55:09)
I was supposed to do one in October, because of the Achilles, I can’t run. It’s been, it was in Orange County, New York, I think.
Ryan Ross (55:11)
which one?
Carmine Corino (55:20)
Wait, Rockland County, one of those two, I don’t remember. It was a small community. But to me, it’s a non -negotiable. And I would tell you that the mental benefits of physical fitness far away the physical. Physical is great, because you feel better, more energy. there’s a study that rigorous exercise four times a week is 100 % more times.
Ryan Ross (55:25)
Yeah. I see.
Carmine Corino (55:49)
effective than an SSRI. Now I’ve never been on medication before like that so I don’t know but shoot if no one’s meant to be on an SSRI long term for me that you know the doing something really hard every I get up at 440 every morning like this morning halfway through I just want to get the hell out of that pool it was miserable it was I was not in a good place but if they sold in a pill form what I feel after a 10 mile run
Ryan Ross (56:12)
Mm
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s like after two thirds of the swim down, you’re like, don’t want to do it. But then you finish and then you’re like, you know what? I can finish other really hard things. And the rest of the day doesn’t seem that bad.
Carmine Corino (56:18)
best -selling drug on the planet.
I can tell you that when I left the firm, the insurance company I was at, they filed a FINRA action against me, 16 months of litigation. And what saved me was meditation and physical fitness. There were days where I’d go to the gym in the morning and then I’d get something in the mail about the action or my attorney hits my account for some fees. I gotta go for a run and I’ll gear up and go for a run. And it is the best medicine and I just wish more people.
Ryan Ross (56:53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Carmine Corino (57:00)
subscribe to that instead of the SSRI route or the CBD or THC or whatever the band -aid is because that’s not a cure. And meditation has been a big part of my life for many years as well. been practicing Transcendental Meditation for eight years and it’s medicine. It literally is medicine for
Ryan Ross (57:22)
Did I not ask you anything you really wanted to cover?
Carmine Corino (57:26)
no, I think we got through all the questions.
Ryan Ross (57:29)
Yeah, this is such a fun conversation. How can people find you if they want to learn more about you?
Carmine Corino (57:35)
Cornerstone, LinkedIn, like you mentioned, I’m on there. CSPGLLC .com is the main site. If you want to have a no obligation conversation, there’s links everywhere to schedule a call if you’re either me or my chief operating officer to kind of get an idea of how we operate and maybe if you’re a good fit or not, but we’d love to hear from you. if you do, I’ll send out a signed copy of the book. It is an Amazon bestseller called Broken Dealer and is literally a book.
Co -authored with a very good friend of mine Darren Blonsky who owns a firm very similar to cornerstone out in Sonoma, California called Sonoma Wealth It’s literally the how to the the book first half is why you should be independent and then the second half is how to If you’re in a constrained environment, so I think there’s a Kindle sale on it right now for 99 cents Please buy post a review if you like it or even if you hate it don’t care Give me the honest review and if you schedule an onboarding call, we’ll send you a copy the book
Ryan Ross (58:32)
Love it. Carmine, appreciate the time. Thank you very much for coming on.
Carmine Corino (58:38)
Thanks Ryan, hey let’s keep in touch, we’ll talk soon. Alright.
Ryan Ross (58:41)
Wonderful.